Not About Conformation And "out Behind" Nope!

So we have a discussion going in Hot Topics about Arabian Type and of course that always leads to conformation but I did not want to hijack that thread any farther and I could see I was going to need to!!

In my experience to see if a horse is 'out behind' you will draw a line from the outer point of rump (I hope thats what you call it) down to the ground and the hock WHEN THE HORSE IS SQUARE should fall inside or at this line.

So many people are drawing this line with the horse camped out from posing or other odd stances or even while in movement and while I can 'sometimes' see what they are getting at most of the time I just don't see it on the horse in question unless its stood square. Once stood square sometimes the horse ends up with this trait, other times not at all.

So with examples I want to put this up for everyone to say, and yes I am going to use my own horses as I really don't care if you guys tell me about them being rump sprung (as its called).

OK, so today the 4H leader tells the kids that sickle hocked horses don't do well in halter classes but they are preferred in u/s horses. Now this is a QH guy but what say you all? Personally I would NOT want a sickle hocked horse for u/s!

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words!

Sue, let me find another one of Dan for you , it is , I suppose , possibly though....if he is even a little out behind, I tell you, he can for sure use that hiney!! Off to get one more photo.
(I just don't see it) If I draw a line down from the outer point of his hip, even in this bad photo....on the leg that is on the ground (Obviously can't use a leg that is flung back in a pose or whatnot) then it seems to me to go straight down past his hock. Now....on Summer, its not I really think he looks out behind though.....its that there is a straighter line so thats a different issue.

From what I have seen, sickle hocked vs camped out, just depends on how the horse is standing most of the time. A sickle hocked horse standing with its legs out behind it, will look camped out and vice versa. AM Lady Inred was sickle hocked I believe, but when her legs were out behind her she looked camped out. http://public.fotki....25925alm-1.html

And here is my post from the Hot Topics thread...I didn't realize the sandbox moved.

, I think what Sue was meaning was that even if the line down from the point of his butt to the ground brushes his hock, it needs to also brush his hind cannon all the way down as well, making his cannon perpendicular to the ground. If you mentally scooch Summer's leg under him where he would normally stand, it appears his cannon would be more likely to be perpendicular to the ground, and flush with the line from the point of buttock.

I drew lines on one of your photos of Dan to try and clarify a bit (hope that's okay, if not I'll delete this, just let me know). You want the red line to be over top of the green line. He is standing a bit under himself in this photo, but even if you bring his hock back, the cannon looks like it still will angle away as it gets closer to the ground. From what I have seen, horses that have hocks set a little out, will stand this way when they bring their legs underneath of them. My rescue mare Rosey did the same thing. I included her picture of when I first got her below Dan's. She was more extreme than Dan, but it explains a bit what I am talking about. When she stood with her hock plumb with her point of buttock, her cannon would angle away from the line and toward her middle as you would get closer to the ground (no pictures of that, sorry. She passed away before I got many). Last I included a mare that has pretty close to a plumb line from point of buttock to the ground, not perfect but close.